Claire Winder is recalling the morning she quit as Carlisle United's supporter representative, and it is not the delivering of her resignation letter that was the most painful part, but the returning of her beloved hi-vis vest.
"I handed it over, in a Tesco bag, with tears coming down my face," she says.
The bright yellow attire was a symbol of how Winder tried to make herself as visible as possible in the newly-created role. Just as noticeable, sadly, was the way it ended.
Winder stood down two weeks ago after, she says, being accused of breaching confidentiality by directors. In a statement she described the circumstances of the accusation: an unminuted conversation before a Brunton Park board meeting, and suggestions she had gone too far in publishing details of a discussion with Blues owners Andrew Jenkins and John Nixon in a programme article on March 28.
Winder firmly denied she had done anything improper. It all amounted to a troubling episode in a generally strained time of fan-board relations. Now she elaborates on the episode, again stressing that, during her requested chat with holding company directors Jenkins and Nixon, it was never said that the owners' views were not to leave the room.
Nor, she says, was she ever made to sign any confidentiality agreement during her time at the club, other than one specifically concerning the Project Blue Yonder stadium scheme.
So, the infamous session with the owners. "I was asking questions that were very clearly from fans - questions fans had been asking for a year," Winder says. "They [Nixon and Jenkins] were answering them very openly. I was quite surprised how openly.
"In the programme I would always write about what I'd done in the role, whether that was meeting about Blue Yonder, taking my little football team to the game with the community ticket scheme, or going into the boardroom.
"So in this case I reported the facts of what was said. I used my discretion. Things I thought might just fuel things, like they way things were said - I wasn't going to do that to them. I kept it factual. And professional."
The bones of Winder's article revealed, among other things, that the owners were reluctant to speak to the media or hold fans' forums, whilst also admitting the mystery "billionaire" investor had not made contact with the club during December's flood crisis.
Resulting coverage did not exactly see fans throwing bouquets at the directors' box, yet it was nearly a month before the owners apparently objected to what she had written.
"We'd all had our cups of tea, done the pleasantries and were all ready to start the board meeting," she says of the April 21 gathering of Carlisle's 1921 operational board, onto which Winder was elected last summer.
"Before the meeting started, Andrew [Jenkins] started talking about things keeping being made public that shouldn't be. Confidentiality was mentioned. I thought they were talking about me, so I asked for an example, and that's the one they gave."
A "15-20 minute" conversation followed, led, Winder says, by Jenkins and Nixon. "At that point the only thing going through my head was, 'I need to resign.' Suzanne [Kidd, finance director] kind of ended it, saying it was getting too personal now. That's when I asked why it wasn't being minuted.
"They said it's because it was done at the start of the meeting. But if I was being pulled up at work about things I should or shouldn't have done, things are written down. That's how I expect to work."
Did any other directors speak? "It was mainly John and Andrew. Phil King chipped in a bit. Lord Clark actually said, 'I'm sure if Claire had been told it was confidential, she wouldn't have said anything.' And I said, 'Absolutely'."
Others, Winder says, remained silent, including Steven Pattison. Did the Carlisle United Official Supporters' Club representative, Norman Steel, not intervene? "No. Which wasn't unusual."
Winder says the meeting ended "on good terms" but her reflections afterwards crystallised her opinion that her position was now untenable. "A particular director, from the holding company board, had said that 'people only get one chance [with me]'. So quite clearly I wasn't going to get another one. That was the time I thought the role isn't possible any more."
Winder is adamant her article was untouched by the club's editorial process. Does she believe the confidentiality accusations were a result of media coverage of her article, and a subsequent backlash? "Yeah...they really don't like negative stories appearing in the media, the paper especially. They've said that consistently. But if you only see the negative stuff, your view is gonna be skewed.
"If [the owners] did it [published answers] themselves, I wouldn't have needed to do it. I'd much prefer not to have. And for a long time I thought - the political-type questions, this is what CUOSC are there for. They should be the ones leading on the bigger fan issues. I didn't mind asking [the owners], but only after months of trying to get CUOSC to do it."
Until this, Winder says she relished the role. "I loved it. Without having any tie to any other group, I was just somebody who bobbed around in a daft hat and a hi-vis vest talking to people about what they wanted.
"When people were talking about representing fans, or the silent majority, or a noisy minority, or 'moaning minnies' - another phrase I heard - I would just walk up to anybody. I think I got a good cross-section of opinion."
From messageboard users to young families to elderly, lifelong fans, were there any common themes aired by Carlisle's supporter base? "They all talk about the billionaire. There isn't anyone that doesn't. Even when I was in the boardroom at the Hartlepool game, someone came up to me and said it was important I asked about those things. These were [the owners'] peers."
From her insight into Brunton Park, what does Winder believe United do well - and not so well - from a fan's perspective? "The face-to-face stuff the club does very well. The ticket office, things like that. Phil is working well with local businesses, and I think Suzanne is the person who most gets the football matches on.
"Especially after the floods, when some of the staff were affected personally but still came into work, in all that chaos, and got matches on - that was amazing.
"There are some things out of their control. Like catering issues - they don't seem to have much control over that. I think they think they do everything right. I think they do things in the best interests, but whether they could listen to, 'what about if things were done differently?'…I'm not sure if that is there."
A little sadly, Winder speculates that supporters are "not as important as we think we are", in light of United's finances being bolstered most dramatically by player sales and cup runs rather than the fan at the turnstile.
Improving the weekly attendance in the long-term is surely another matter, of course. "Well, then it would be different. I think we're important. I don't see it as their club - I see it as ours. A funny word I heard [in the boardroom] was 'fan-centric'. I'm not entirely certain what it means - possibly the matchday experience being as good as it can be.
"Things like the family zone - brilliant. Thomas [my eight-year-old son] loves it. The community tickets, things for younger fans, that's great. But there's probably too much reliance on [the assumption that] people are gonna keep coming back.
"I spoke to an older fella who said he'd seen it, been there, done it all, and just wanted to come and enjoy the football. I wonder if, at some point, the noisy few do turn into a silent majority. But I wouldn't know, because they're silent!"
Winder admits a general disillusionment with the running of United has seen her sister and father attend fewer games than before. She also rolls her eyes at the occasional shabby episodes which drag the club's name down, the latest being the Andy Bell Hillsborough tweets which resulted in the vice-president and sponsor severing his ties with the club.
"He's made the right decision," Winder says. "I managed not to get hacked - emails, texts, Twitter, blog, messageboard. I never sent any screenshots I shouldn't."
Since resigning, Winder says feedback from fellow fans has been vastly supportive. This took her aback after criticism and some "horrible stuff" on forums earlier in the season. How does she now feel about allegations that the fan rep role was merely designed to draw heat away from the people at the top of United?
"I only thought that after the last board meeting. Otherwise…there was no time when I was asked to say a certain thing, or when I asked what I could or couldn't say. With board meeting briefings, there would be a delay so that stuff could come out the official way. That frustrated people, but we were still getting information out. It will be interesting to see how that progresses now."
Despite how it finished, Winder insists it has been a worthwhile exercise, one the club appears determined to continue next season. "If the Warwick Road End bogs get sorted, that will do!" she laughs, repeating a favourite hobby-horse.
"Overall, I think there were more people who felt listened to. Whether it changed anything, I'm not sure, but they were more represented at board level. From my experience this season, I'm not sure how represented fans have been, even with another fan rep [from CUOSC] there.
"I know I took things that were important to those meetings. I reckon I did alright."