After two years, 10 months and several days of silence, Yahya Kirdi is ready to talk. This interview has already been a long time in the chasing – arranged, aborted, emails exchanged, calls unanswered – when a further attempt, via WhatsApp message, elicits a response.
“Am very sorry am busy. I will call u tomorrow 10am Canada local time.”
That time, 3pm in the UK, passes, but a while later Kirdi responds to another text, providing me with a number to call. He picks up immediately.
“How are you, Mister Jon?”
Finally, the “potential overseas investor” linked with Carlisle United from 2015-17 is on the line. Kirdi begins by claiming to have checked my background, reassuring me that “nobody has talked anything bad”. He then asks that everything he says about Carlisle is published.
This being his first interview since the “billionaire” saga began, it is an easy request to honour – and, over the next hour, it is clear he has much to say. His reply to my first question alone lasts 22 minutes. His English is broken, and at times challenging, but his views on this unique episode in the Blues’ history are put across clearly enough.
Kirdi, initially, says his interest in Carlisle began in 2016. He corrects this to 2015 when reminded this was when United’s first statement was made. “I have some information that Carlisle United have some problem for finance,” he says, recalling his thoughts at the outset. “I check personally, and talk to friend, who knows about the situation with UK clubs. I then saw that in the club you have history, and you have very good fans. Carlisle club is not in the Champion[ship], or Premier, so when you see these fans, who follow the club, you have something very interesting.
“I visited city. I saw very nice people in city too. But I believe it’s a club [with] no money.”
Kirdi confirms that football agent “Mister Nick” [McCreery], was his intermediary, claiming to have already known his father, David, the former Carlisle manager. He says his intention was to “check the club from A to Z” before considering his move. He says he received “information” and “numbers” about United, whilst operating under confidentiality.
At this point Kirdi suddenly starts talking more darkly. He says that, when he studied the club, he recognised there were some “good people”, such as chairman Andrew Jenkins, but also suspected a “magic hand” was at work inside United: someone he does not name, but whom he believes did not want to entertain new investment, because of potential “profits”.
It is not easy to pin this down, though Kirdi repeats the phrase when he claims someone leaked information to the press in a bid to deflect attention from internal problems. “He try and push people and fans to focus about investor. Why? Because you have some big mistake inside the club. I am very clear with you about this.
“After that, I saw impossible I can go and invest. I go back, I don’t need problem, my money is in my bank, thank-you very much.”
Kirdi, who it appears considered other clubs in this period, says he made no subsequent contact with Carlisle until another approach was made, through Nick McCreery, asking if he (Kirdi) was still interested. He says the financial “numbers” he requested were not initially forthcoming, but when information was eventually received, he decided to pursue interest.
It is important to point out that many months had elapsed through this. Kirdi said he was finally ready to be open with United’s owners during a visit to the UK. When asked why everything took so long, he says it was simply because he needed to “collect all information” first.
“I stay in Newcastle Marriott Hotel...two weeks,” he says. “Every two days I visit Carlisle, and in case I don’t go, I send someone for me.” He talks about meeting Jenkins, in his office. “I told him [my idea] for five years, maybe more. I need to build this club. For the future I have strategy.” This, he says, included overseas sponsorship, enhancing the club’s academy and stadium, and overhauling commercial work.
Kirdi felt there were flaws in the latter because he spoke to someone who “was paid £40,000, yet only brought in £30,000” in revenue. “Excuse me? This is something wrong.” He also questions the “very low” income from catering outlets despite seeing “many people” there. "This money go where? I don't understand." He also mentions Jenkins’ six-figure loan.
“I agree I have to fix the club A to Z. I gave them a list.” After his visits, at which he met “four or five” club officials, it was at a meeting in the Newcastle Marriott in February 2017, with Jenkins and fellow owner John Nixon present, that he made a formal offer.
Kirdi does not say how much he offered – “all the numbers are not with me now” – but says he wanted 65 per cent of the club, and had a business plan plus bank statements over a six-year period to corroborate his finances.
He also requested signatures on a confidentiality agreement, requesting the same when he met Carlisle United Official Supporters’ Club representatives, “because I am not man who goes to media. If I don’t buy, it [publicity] is not good for me.”
As part of negotiations, Kirdi claims he was asked to pay United a substantial sum. “400,000 or 500,000 pounds,” he says, “to finish season. I have to leave this money inside Carlisle account, and after that I have answer yes or no. Amazing, huh? I told [them] no. I said, how come I make downpayment [but] don’t have control of the club? I gave my offer and said, listen, I make control, 65 per cent of the club, and then I transfer money from my account to the club’s account. After that, I close the [club’s] debt, pay for screenboards, all the expenses, check about the players, the coach, the team, renovation, everything.”
Kirdi says he gave United 72 hours to respond to his offer. “This time,” he says, “I don’t hear [from] anybody. Surprise for me. Why? I don’t know.”
He claims his attempts to elicit a reply over 10-14 days were unsuccessful. “Nobody answer email. My lawyer send email to club. I send email, I try to call.” Kirdi says he tried to contact everyone he knew at United – Jenkins, Nixon, (co-owner) Steven Pattison, Nigel Clibbens. “Four or five person don’t see my email. Maybe at this time you don’t have internet in UK? And also you don’t have phones. In UK, the number one country in the world? Amazing.”
Kirdi emphasises that he was “very upset” by this. Indeed, he calls back the next day to underline the point, claiming his “100,000 per cent serious” offer was not so much refused as ignored, at a time he had already lined up firms to provide advertising “screenboards” and new seating, and renovate Brunton Park, as well as having paid lawyers $30,000. “I used my money, I used my time. At least just answer email: ‘Mr Kirdi, we are not interested, good luck’. They don’t respect me, they don’t respect fans.”
He also alleges the club were trying to provoke interest from a British rival. “They say, ‘in case you are interested, come before Mr Kirdi’. They use me, Carlisle.”
It is in this period that Kirdi believes the media was “given information” to smear him as a “billionaire pizzaman” – a reference to businesses he owned several years ago after moving to Canada from Syria. Given his identity was leaked to The Cumberland News last April, he also claims the confidentiality agreements were breached. “They don’t respect this document. How come media know?” He adds that he has read public comments from Nixon and Clibbens about the matter (for the record, they never named Kirdi until Monday’s club statement).
United announced the end of talks on February 27 last year, after 650 days – again, a figure Kirdi disputes on the basis that he didn’t receive a response to his offer. It is easily recalled how, in 2015, he was described as a “billionaire” by former vice-president Andy Bell and, weeks later, Nixon.
Kirdi laughs when I ask if he is a man of such wealth. “I hope so one day. I am millionaire but not billionaire.”
He adds that he was always intending to use his own money with Carlisle, despite business connections with the Al-Qasimi family of Sharjah. He confirms, too, that he was in talks with a Spanish La Liga club in 2015, but is more dismissive about older reports concerning Italian club Vicenza, saying an acceptable deal was never on the table there.
Much more famously, he was linked with Liverpool in 2010, an approach whose publicity differed greatly to the confidential Carlisle case. Asked about this, Kirdi talks about the “dream” of Liverpool, but denies ever approaching the media about them, adding he wanted “secrecy” with United because he was so “serious” about the club, and would have spoken publicly once he took control.
Reporters and bloggers at Liverpool first unearthed his pizza-business past. Earlier in the interview Kirdi had denied being “a working pizzaman” and when I later question him on it, he sighs.
“My friend. Mister Jon. I have a group. I buy company with partner. Inside company, you have pizza, [but] inside supermarket. Eight months, some profit. But this is history. I am not working with pizza.”
He then asks me a question. If I had once been an “icey-cream salesman” before entering the media, would I still prefer to be known as an ice-cream man, or a journalist?
It’s a fair point. So, what are his current business interests?
“Now I have construction company, since 14 years ago. Stadium construction. I have many projects, in Emirates, some Europe. I have sport management [business] and some private business.” He starts laughing. “I have a project now in Canada, I hope media take photo there, not pizza photo. My project is construction, not just pizza!”
Kirdi has since invested in Maltese Premier League club, Naxxar Lions, dividing his time between that country, Dubai and his main Canada base. He says the Naxxar deal, which again involved the McCreery link, was completed after the sort of “secrecy” he had demanded from United. He also suggests Maltese football is a good opportunity where one does not need to spend “big money”.
He requests that these ventures are mentioned, talking about the overseas signings he has funded, having suggested he would have arranged a similar influx to Carlisle. He then mentions plans for a new stadium, with swimming pool and other facilities, claiming a “big company” in Dubai is interested. “This is a very interesting project to me.”
On Carlisle, meanwhile, further views. He claims chief executive Clibbens does not have a contract. “How come this person have big position with the club, and you don’t have contract?”
“This is club, very big name, all the history, but no strong assets,” he adds. “This is why, for next step, you have to work at building very good assets. You also don’t know who control the club. Andrew, or Nigel, or Nixon? You don’t know who. Nobody knows who is manager, nobody knows who office boy.” He adds that Jenkins, although a loyal backer for more than 50 years, no longer has a handle on United’s daily workings. “I also spoke to person who has about 15 per cent of the club. When I ask how much he paid, he told me ‘nothing’, or 10,000 pounds. For 15 per cent? I don’t understand.
“Still Carlisle have big problems. I follow [it], I check some times, and I believe it is not good. [If I had control of the club] you don’t know what this club could have. Maybe I bring with me some big sponsors, big commercial. I also told them, if I take control of the club, you have to have one control, one decision. Not everybody giving his idea.”
He again hints at those dark forces. “I believe you have [someone], he not happy in case I come and take control. I told you, you have some magic hand down table. I don’t know who. Who is magic hand?”
Who indeed. The interview ends with Kirdi inviting me to Malta and Dubai, offering to pay for my flights and hotels. I say I will contact him if this is ever possible. At this point the “millionaire” – not billionaire – bids a cheerful farewell, happy at last to have had his say. “I am available at any time,” he says. “Thank you very much.”